Somehow that light made it accross the 'hard' vacuum of space to the Hubble telescope. 14 billion years in that vacuum.

So space is the next great frontier -- anyone feel like repeating the travails of Magellan or the Vikings or Columbus? We should never give up our human curiousity. Just think of all those planets where unfettered freedoms can flourish once again. This world is getting too small for those of us with a longing for greater freedom and independence.

I think we still have alot of growing up to do before we will have regular visitors. I suspect we are still off-limits - in quaranteen, so-to-speak.

We are the Phoenix, rising out of the present weakening establishment -- the Vanguard of the future. We are a little group on this site -- often an island of truth in sea of lies and disinformation -- sometimes a little fractious. Sometimes a little too gloomy with our tendencies to the negative -- but always toward a desire for the truth, even if many of us are not investment wizards.

We are a small group of many small groups on the net, born of the information revolution.

The information revolution -- as traumatic and disturbing as the industrial revolution that our predecessors experienced. At first only a few benefitted, but as the industrial revolution grew and matured, most humans eventually benefitted. Now the cycle begins anew. Some will lose, and some will gain -- hard times will come -- but if we keep sight on what comes after the turmoil -- the hardship will be acceptable.

We must never give up hope, regardless of what comes our way.

It is still possible that I will see our first manned interstellar craft blast off before I leave this earth -- or at least the launch of our first space colony/asteroid mining operation. Precious metals from space, anyone? Perhaps one of our colleagues posting tonight will be one of the mining engineers. My next door neighbor is an engineer and dreams of being in space as well. We can hope.

Either way -- just think about what such a trial will do to the US markets. What still puzzles me is why his own lawyers are bringing this up. What sort of behind the scenes deal is going up? Is WJC better off resigning to get slammed immediately with a criminal subpeona, or fighting impeachment tooth and nail while in office, only to get nailed later?

Also, if I remember the pardon situation, doesn't one need to be charged with criminal activity before one can be pardoned?

Apparently Nixon resigned when he did partially because if impeachment proceedings had continued, he could not have been pardoned by then President Ford. Jan 20, 1999 may be a very important date.

Looks like WJC is having the legal battle of his life. Poetic justice, I guess for what he has done along the way, littering his campaign trail with the ruined careers of those who have fallen so that he can continue to rise.

I hope we Americans will benefit from the example of WJC, and be more selective regarding who we will elect to high office in the future. Perhaps we need to reinforce some ethics rules for those who aspire to high public office. Perhaps we will also show the rest of the world that our three-branch democratic government still works.

I am now beginning to believe that we have not yet crossed the Rubicon in this country.

Gold stocks are not showing any activity yet -- but perhaps we are at the deer caught in the headlights stage. Just blinking activity -- no action yet.

Yes -- WJC may be able to evade the worst charges, and President Al Gore may pardon him -- but what ever it is will still get out.

Interesting.

Any speculation regarding what will happen to gold and the markets? It is possible that the initial reaction will be that gold equities will go down with the general equity markets -- but not for long. Gold bullion will rise steadily, and the US dollar will plummet.

I think now is the time for us to try to confirm what I have posted. Comments, anyone?

http://search.washingtonpost.com/wp-srv/WAPO/19981209/V000263-120998-idx.html

I think this will put a bottom on gold if news such as this continues to leak out. Why whould WJC's own lawyers make such a damaging statment?

Something is up -- perhaps a deal is being made. WJC resigns in January if criminal charges are dropped?

Aurbetholderator will see to it that all debts are paid........well?

away.......to await the answer :-$ )

Éß

don't worry D.A. if'n I lose I won't give AWAY 'our' wink. That is still the prime attraction in my Wink Museum......it's a one piece museum............... ( attendance has been VERY low......but those who see it are quite...... ( how should I say ) .................awed......... ( yes that's it ) ............awed.

Figure 22x12 trading days in a year.....subtract seven for holidays, etc.

257 days

257 into 12k = $46.69/day

That is $46.69/day.

If'n you day trade and are in and out twice a day at ( say ) $12.00/trade you burned ( duh ) .......$48.00.

If'n a trade is more than.......well, you do the math.

So.........what do we know from this............well.........that my broker was a trader in the Bond option pit for over thirteen years. He did WELL. But he probably does *ALOT* better waiting for the phone to ring.......churn and burn baby....... ( $ ) !

And it also tells us to do your homework before'n you throw cash at something, eh? hmmmmmmmm.....

away...to ponder lifes wonders

Éß

The FED is for the preservation of values and prices, the politicians are known for their making of promises and dollar devaluations. The Creditors obviously want the same thing as the FED although they are more tolerant of the deflationary scenario to the point that defaults are not excessive and liquidity is present for business. In veiw of the fact that those in power have conflicting agendas they will tend to do too little in agregate. This means that natual forces will tend to out run them.

That being said, the public's appetite for credit will be their own undoing. The deterioration of capital building will tend to slow genuine economic activity, the accumulation of debt will be too large to bear, and asset prices will fall. This will elicit the monetization of government debt, and bugetary reforms out of necessity. The system will then tend to be inflationary, with a cheap labor pool ( and much economic suffering and discontent ) .

So first would be to get out of the dollar using either foriegn stocks or a stable currency ( probably swiss francs or the Japanese stock market ) . Once commodities fall buy them. If the prices of assets falls before the dollar slides, borrow all you can safely pay back to buy land at depressed prices. Use the profits on your commodities, or rents to pay back the loans ( present homeowners will still need a place to live ) .

If the dollar slides before assets devalue the we are falling on the inflationary side. You will already have bought commodities and be safely out of the dollar based harms way.

From Rockefeller Currency report:

Outlook: Last week's dollar slide may already be ending. We are now in

narrow trading ranges in a thin pre-holiday and end-of-year market, with

traders feeling jaded and apathetic. A rising Dow gives only a little support

and the dollar is deeply vulnerable to a big sell-off, but the stock market is

bored, too, and overanalyzed to death on business TV. The dollar is also

vulnerable to impeachment, with the House making a last-ditch run at it. Few

now expect a Fed rate cut on Dec 22, and we are almost alone in saying it's

practically a sure thing. Employment experts Challenger Gray report that there

were more job cuts in November than in all of 1997, another good indicator of

the impending slowdown. One restraining note, though: US consumer credit

exploded again in October, up $9.7 billion at an annual rate of 9% ( after 4.9%

in September ) . If Christmas is jolly for retailers, we will be looking again at the

ratio of personal debt at historically high levels, personal bankruptcies at fresh

all-time highs, and other such signs of consumer fecklessness that worry the

pious Pollys. As usual when nobody knows what to do with the dollar outright,

the cross-rates will be where the action is. The yen is the likely loser if

unwinding yen carry trades is over this time, and we make no bets on the

pound whatsoever. It has a habit of perversely rising just when things look the

blackest.

Beijing, Dec. 9 ( Bloomberg ) -- China's central bank will hold one-third of its reserves in euros within the next three years, said Qiu Yuanlun,

director of the Institute of European Studies in the Chinese Academy of Social Sciences, Agence France Presse reported. Zhu Min, director of

the Bank of China's Institute of International Finance, estimated the amount of euros in the reserve would reach about 35 percent compared with

19 percent held in European currencies at present. He said it will hold 50 percent of reserves in U.S. dollars compared with 62 percent

currently, and 8 percent in yen against 15 at the present moment, AFP reported.

Yesterday, Joseph Yam, the Chief Executive of the Hong Kong Monetary Authority, said the HKMA may shift some of its foreign currency

reserve holdings into the euro.

-------------------------------------

...will hold 50 percent of reserves in U.S. dollars compared with 62 percent currently...

Please consider how a future value can be specified, in terms of percentage, when the denominated value is subject to floating exchange rates.

This commentary is not quite what it seems on the surface...

But the demise of the self-reliant American is not soley due to the immigrant, ( I wish I had not mentioned that word ) .

Those Americans born in 1945 are now 53 yrs old and they were weaned on freebies, rights ,priviledges and handouts and know nothing of hardships. Plus many others who claim to have been short-changed and are now demanding retribution. So the immigrants are only contributing elements, we are quite capable of digging our own graves.

So, come on you guys, there is enough meat in the above to cause an even bigger cyclone.

I think we are heading into a period of competive devaluations -- we will be 'neck n neck' with the Europeans, who have debt problems similar to ours. Hard to make you trade balance favorable if your competitors devalue their currencies as fast as you devalue yours. The US dollar may not go down as fast as AG wants it to.

Trade wars next?

Just how much foreign debt have we floated in these Brady bonds? I am aware of the debt from SEAsia being rolled over into Euros. I think it must be at least 1 trillion equivalent US dollars.

And -- if we do not devalue the US dollar, those Brady bonds will cost the debtors more. What happens to all of that SEAsian debt if the Europeans do not devalue the EURO?

So -- AG must actively devalue the US dollar for several reasons. And -- like I said last night ( and forgot already ) AG cannot afford to let the price of gold drop very much -- without disastrous consequences.

Regardless, I think we all need to carefully watch commodity prices, the price of gold, the value of the US dollar in foreign currencies, as well a a number of other things. AG may not get it right, and his attempts to devalue the dollar may backfire by heating up the stock markets, instead of pushing up the price of gold.

Think of visible light as an alternating magnetic and electric field perpendicular to each other, moving at the speed of light. An alternating magnetic field oscillating at the frequency of that light will affect it.

But -- if you are asking -- can a magnet deflect visible light, then you are asking a much more complicated question. If I am allowed to add an optical medium for the light to pass through, and alter that medium with a magnet, then that magnet can be used to alter the beam of light. Kerr cells are an example of this, but as I recall that particular example uses DC electric fields instead of DC magnetic fields to alter the beam of light. Other materials can be used that are sensitive to DC magnetic fields.

I am a little rusty on this, but I think Kerr cells are still used routinely in optics.

I think in these days of electronic money, major deflationary events will be rather sudden ones.

My scenario is a bit more complicated. I am not so certain that the US dollar will drop in synchrony with the drop in commodity prices. It may be alot more complex than that, though I am prepared for the eventuality of a US dollar financial crisis where a sudden liquidity exit from the US markets repeats the SEAsia scenario of Oct 97. The local price of gold would skyrocket if we take Indonesia as an example of your scenario. But -- that requires that the investing public have a safer country to put their money in.

I think we must be aware of the possibility that the US dollar might actually go up -- not down -- while other countries have new deflationary events. There is nothing a priori that requires that US dollar inflation should be in perfect synchrony with commodity price deflation.

I do have one thing you will get a kick out of if you have not already heard it.

For years many of the world's countries kept their gold at the New York FED. If one country owed another some gold, all that was be necessary was that some workmen moved the gold from one vault stall to another. Much cheaper that way. The US had the reputation of having the world's strongest currency -- for a time.

In recent years, however, many countries have requested that they keep their own gold at their own CB's instead of at the New York Fed. I think that time was near or just before Nixon closed the gold window.

I can't imagine the Rothschilds or for that matter any of the CB's carting their gold back and forth these days. So -- paper scrip must be in pretty common use. However, since any system is subject to abuse if it is in place long enough, some banks may have over subscribed their scrip.

Eventually something like that comes out into the open and a few heads roll. Just a matter of time.

I think we ( the American people ) should demand that our own FED disclose their own assets, if we are expected to disclose all of our daily transactions to the authorities ( via our bank officers ) . I do not look forward to selling a house, depositing a large sum of money in a bank, and then getting arrested for being suspected of drug dealing.

I am willing to disclose all of my transactions to the world -- is our own federal reserve willing to do the same? We can begin by looking inside Fort Knox.

The vanishing of electronic money will not necessarily make the US dollar worthless, though it will make any kind of real currency alot more dear.

I think we should all review what happened to the US dollar and gold during the great depression. Gold equities actually went down until well after the market crash. Yes there were some fluctuations up and down, but the trend was clearly down. Don't assume this behavior of gold was due to the fact that the government fixed the price of gold at the time.

It is one thing to say that gold will rise in strength relative to commodity prices -- it is already doing that. It is quite another thing to say that runaway ( ? ) deflation will not negatively affect the price of gold. So -- why do you think the price of gold can only go up? Are you expecting further dollar devaluations?

If you are right that deflation will dominate, doesn't that mean that our FED chairman AG could not inflate the dollar fast enough? I'm still puzzling over how he can inflate the dollar without inadvertently heating up the markets to a frenzy instead of pushing up the price of gold ( inflating ) .

So -- my point is -- commodity price deflation might very well cause the price of gold to go down, not up. Usually does.

What amuses me is that Al Gore will probably be no match for a Jack Kemp, or one of the Bush brothers. But -- the rule has often been that the VP gets the presidential candidacy. If WJC resigns 1/20, the democratic regime lasts at least until y2k.

The dilution is too great. And these new comers, either foreign or home grown have no idea of the self reliance you refer too. Sorry too be so pessimistic, I see no solution in our current politically correct society.

btw......a gallon of milk costs me about $3.89 or something close to that. hmmmmmmmm......

away....to find some Bosco

Éßdumbo

You guessed it - I don't like socialism. As an American, I like individualism. I know that's a strange concept, but our nation was built on this unique American characteristic. Yes, there are socialist here, but guys like me vote against them. All political parties in America, trade union leaders, and practically all leaders of public opinion are committed to the system of private enterprise and to the political philosophy of individualism.

The United States of America is not torn by conflict on the issue whether the country is to become socialist or to remain one in which most of its enterprises are carried on by private persons. The people of the United States of America have made up their minds about the country's basic policy long ago, and we have always been successful of getting to where we want to be. We make things happen.

In Australia, however, there has been a fundamental conflict among those who seek the people's support. The Labor party, is committed to the socialist objective. The other group, which is ranged against the

Labor party, is pledged, if not in written words, at least in action, to oppose socialism, and to preserve opportunity and the freedom of the individual.

In the United States of America, the home of individualism, there is a substantial amount of planning. Each State has its own planning board, and there is a national planning board to guide and direct national activities. The existence of such planning authorities has made possible the Tennessee Valley Power

Project, and other great projects for irrigation, forestation and the like. This planning and development have taken place in a country where the bulk of the people subscribe to the philosophy of individualism.

There is a great difference between socialism and national planning of the kind that I have described. Socialism, as honorable members who are pledged to a socialist platform should know, means the ownership and control by the State of the means of production, distribution and exchange. That is a very different thing from State planning, State guidance and State assistance.

Socialism in practice means the creation of a police state, the restriction of opportunity and the freedom of the individual, and the wholesale suppression of human rights and liberties. In practice, the socialist state never reaches the stage envisaged by the idealists and Utopians, who believe that socialism can lead to the creation of a vast, cooperative commonwealth.

It's about time your government realized that a great many people in your country, who supported the Labor party in the past, have awakened to the dangers of socialism. They have seen what has happened in other countries and their recent experience in Australia

has convinced them that socialism can lead only to the creation of a centralized bureaucracy, which crushes opportunity and restricts the liberty of the individual.

That is why they answered with a resounding

No the Government's request for a permanent transfer of power to control rents and prices. As a result your country's Labor party, is in the process of re-examining its policy on this matter. It would be for the good of Australia if all political parties were to agree that

the people do not want socialism, because it would then be possible to agree upon a basic economic policy.

Here's your Big hint as to how many fingers I'm holding up; it's a number between 0 and 2. Tell your mate down under Nick that America is spelled with a c and not a k. Now you intellectuals can assemble and moll this over.

Carry on.

More telling at one point they use the phrase finage and weight in reference to the US Dollar. Gee, is my paper dollar .900 fine? There were other subtle little things but they are of little interest to me at the moment, perhaps later I will want to zoom in and look close for the signatures of the NWO, but at the moment, I only wish to understand their mission as they state it, which is scary enough.

I used to point out when people said that the US$ was backed by gold that it wasn't. They would invaribly ask whats it backed by then? I would say nothing and they wouldn't believe me. Turns out I was wrong, the dollar is backed by Special Drawing Rights. SDR's are however backed by the US$. Neat how that works. The more I learn, the more I am astonished.

( a ) The Fund shall be guided in all its policies and decisions under this Section by the objectives set forth

in Article VIII, Section 7 and by the objective of avoiding the management of the price, or the

establishment of a fixed price, in the gold market.

globalized world economy, the Interim Committee has endorsed the concept of an

amendment to the IMF's charter ( or Articles of Agreement ) that would make the

promotion of capital account liberalization one of its purposes and give the IMF

appropriate jurisdiction over capital movements. The IMF is considering carefully

all aspects of this issue, recognizing that moves toward capital account

liberalization must be properly paced and sequenced in light of individual country

circumstances.

preserve its own level; because, having intrinsic and universal value, it can never die in our

hands, and it is the surest resource of reliance in time of war; that the trifling economy of

paper, as a cheaper medium, or its convenience for transmission, weighs nothing in opposition to

the advantages of the precious metals; that it is liable to be abused, has been, is, and forever

will be abused, in every country in which it is permitted;... Instead, then, of yielding to the

cries of scarcity of medium set up by speculators, projectors and commercial gamblers, no

endeavors should be spared to begin the work of reducing it by such gradual means as may give

time to private fortunes to preserve their poise, and settle down with the subsiding medium;

Thomas Jefferson

banks, more banks. The American mind is now in that state of fever which the world has so often

seen in the history of other nations. We are under the bank bubble, as England was under the

South Sea bubble, France under the Mississippi bubble, and as every nation is liable to be under

whatever bubble, design, or delusion may puff up in moments when off their guard. We are now

taught to believe that legerdemain tricks upon paper can produce as solid wealth as hard labor

in the earth. It is vain for common sense to urge that nothing can produce but nothing, that it

is an idle dream to believe in a philosopher's stone which is to turn everything into gold, and

to redeem man from the original sentence of his Maker, in the sweat of his brow shall he earn

his bread.

Thomas Jefferson

Any idea how badly the South American Oil producers are hurting? Looks like things will get worse before they get better. Mexicao and Venezuela certainly cannot afford to reduce oil production.

Catch 22.